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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s the Problem that Schools Solve?</title>
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		<title>By: Francois Carriere</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76666</link>
		<dc:creator>Francois Carriere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Compulsory schooling has only been around for less than 200 years. Before this, kids would play amongst themselves until they were ready (or needed) to work. They would become an apprentice or continue on with the family work.

Compulsory schooling came into effect only when society needed a mass-produced workforce to create mass-produced products. The schooling system was built around this societal organization. Evidently, society changed but the school system did not. It became an institution (see  &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Giddens&quot; title=&quot;Anthony Giddens&#039;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structuration&quot; title=&quot;theory of structuration&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; on how institutions are created) as mentionned by Will that wanted to perpetuate itself through time more than solve a problem (just like any other institution).

Another good read on schooling in the US is &lt;a href=&quot;http://drrobertepstein.com/index.php?option=content&amp;task=view&amp;id=17&amp;Itemid=36&quot; title=&quot;The Case Against Adolescence&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;. We must look at society in general in order to understand the school system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Compulsory schooling has only been around for less than 200 years. Before this, kids would play amongst themselves until they were ready (or needed) to work. They would become an apprentice or continue on with the family work.</p>
<p>Compulsory schooling came into effect only when society needed a mass-produced workforce to create mass-produced products. The schooling system was built around this societal organization. Evidently, society changed but the school system did not. It became an institution (see  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Giddens" title="Anthony Giddens'" rel="nofollow"> </a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structuration" title="theory of structuration" rel="nofollow"> on how institutions are created) as mentionned by Will that wanted to perpetuate itself through time more than solve a problem (just like any other institution).</p>
<p>Another good read on schooling in the US is </a><a href="http://drrobertepstein.com/index.php?option=content&amp;task=view&amp;id=17&amp;Itemid=36" title="The Case Against Adolescence" rel="nofollow">. We must look at society in general in order to understand the school system.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Maria Erb</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76547</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria Erb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogg-ed.com/?p=3492#comment-76547</guid>
		<description>The public school system in the US, imo, has always been the solution for the problem of having to work for a living.  So if the factory and assembly line approach to education produced workers for the factory jobs, what should education look like now that there aren&#039;t factory jobs to go to? Or for that matter, hi tech or engineering jobs to go to either? Now that the whole model of &quot;what we do&quot; in US society has been turned on its head (i.e. getting a &quot;good&quot; education so that you can get a &quot;good&quot; job so that you can own a home, acquire some wealth, and retire) because there are so few &quot;good&quot; jobs out there and more education for jobs that don&#039;t exist simply isn&#039;t the solution.  I don&#039;t know what the entry ticket to earning a living is going to be but I don&#039;t think there will be a 1:1 link to education.  A few years ago, I envisioned a world where everyone had access to high quality education through PLE&#039;s and other online resources and we all moved seamlessly from profession to profession improving and adding to our skills along the way and developing our true potentials to the fullest.  But now that there are already so many highly trained, highly skilled, and unemployed professionals for each occupation out there already, I don&#039;t see education as being the solution to the problem of how to earn a living anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The public school system in the US, imo, has always been the solution for the problem of having to work for a living.  So if the factory and assembly line approach to education produced workers for the factory jobs, what should education look like now that there aren&#8217;t factory jobs to go to? Or for that matter, hi tech or engineering jobs to go to either? Now that the whole model of &#8220;what we do&#8221; in US society has been turned on its head (i.e. getting a &#8220;good&#8221; education so that you can get a &#8220;good&#8221; job so that you can own a home, acquire some wealth, and retire) because there are so few &#8220;good&#8221; jobs out there and more education for jobs that don&#8217;t exist simply isn&#8217;t the solution.  I don&#8217;t know what the entry ticket to earning a living is going to be but I don&#8217;t think there will be a 1:1 link to education.  A few years ago, I envisioned a world where everyone had access to high quality education through PLE&#8217;s and other online resources and we all moved seamlessly from profession to profession improving and adding to our skills along the way and developing our true potentials to the fullest.  But now that there are already so many highly trained, highly skilled, and unemployed professionals for each occupation out there already, I don&#8217;t see education as being the solution to the problem of how to earn a living anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76541</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 02:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogg-ed.com/?p=3492#comment-76541</guid>
		<description>What’s the Problem that Schools Solve?

While there are lots of truths in the discussions, a slight shift is necessary for a school to be a school.  Maybe not seeing students and learning as problems would be a good start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What’s the Problem that Schools Solve?</p>
<p>While there are lots of truths in the discussions, a slight shift is necessary for a school to be a school.  Maybe not seeing students and learning as problems would be a good start.</p>
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		<title>By: Meryn Stol</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76504</link>
		<dc:creator>Meryn Stol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogg-ed.com/?p=3492#comment-76504</guid>
		<description>&quot;How would we ease this anxiety?&quot; Storytelling. :) But I believe that&#039;s the cure for  about all ills, at least the stubborn psychological ones. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;How would we ease this anxiety?&#8221; Storytelling. <img src='http://weblogg-ed.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  But I believe that&#8217;s the cure for  about all ills, at least the stubborn psychological ones. <img src='http://weblogg-ed.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Douglas</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76503</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogg-ed.com/?p=3492#comment-76503</guid>
		<description>I think we are in agreement on many things. You should follow me on Twitter @Douglascrets and I will follow you if you are on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we are in agreement on many things. You should follow me on Twitter @Douglascrets and I will follow you if you are on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76502</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogg-ed.com/?p=3492#comment-76502</guid>
		<description>Your point is well-taken and I do appreciate the clarification. I think what your comment points out, and what Rosen is pointing out is the same kind of impetus towards disruption put forward by Christensen in the book &quot;Disrupting Class.&quot; He argues that no corporation can accomodate the disruption incubated within its ranks. The purpose of the disruption is to bring innovation, but the purpose of a corporation or entity that has a specific agenda is to keep to that agenda. The issue, I think, is that the politically run and bureaucratically administered schools have a very very broad mandate to educate, but they don&#039;t, unfortunately, use innovation to change up what that means. Do you know what I mean? 

It&#039;s like I used to work for this company that said they were a &quot;business media and information provider.&quot; But they were very limited in action, despite that very broad definition. Oddly, within the scope of that broad definition, it was hard to get an administrator or an executive to O.K. any innovation that was a change in how they had always done things. There was a great fear that disruption would lead to destruction. 

People working within a solid framework will often worry that competition or asynchronous alignments will bring it crashing down like a house of cards. I think in these cases, they are overlooking great opportunities for growth. 

Again, I see your point and I appreciate it. 

How would we ease this anxiety?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your point is well-taken and I do appreciate the clarification. I think what your comment points out, and what Rosen is pointing out is the same kind of impetus towards disruption put forward by Christensen in the book &#8220;Disrupting Class.&#8221; He argues that no corporation can accomodate the disruption incubated within its ranks. The purpose of the disruption is to bring innovation, but the purpose of a corporation or entity that has a specific agenda is to keep to that agenda. The issue, I think, is that the politically run and bureaucratically administered schools have a very very broad mandate to educate, but they don&#8217;t, unfortunately, use innovation to change up what that means. Do you know what I mean? </p>
<p>It&#8217;s like I used to work for this company that said they were a &#8220;business media and information provider.&#8221; But they were very limited in action, despite that very broad definition. Oddly, within the scope of that broad definition, it was hard to get an administrator or an executive to O.K. any innovation that was a change in how they had always done things. There was a great fear that disruption would lead to destruction. </p>
<p>People working within a solid framework will often worry that competition or asynchronous alignments will bring it crashing down like a house of cards. I think in these cases, they are overlooking great opportunities for growth. </p>
<p>Again, I see your point and I appreciate it. </p>
<p>How would we ease this anxiety?</p>
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		<title>By: Meryn Stol</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76501</link>
		<dc:creator>Meryn Stol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogg-ed.com/?p=3492#comment-76501</guid>
		<description>Douglas, I actually only noticed now that Will in fact asked two questions. (I read his post much to quickly probably.) That would make the issues you raised within scope.

I think I&#039;d sum it up by that I think that schools generally fail to instill an &quot;adaptive&quot; mindset into children. Schools are way to predictable. It&#039;s perfect if you can expect the kind of jobs available, and the work making part of these jobs to be equally predictable. Problem is that nowadays, through constant changes caused by things like outsourcing, new technologies (especially for communication/collaboration), automation, mechanization and changes in consumer preferences the nature of work changes faster than ever. Faster than any system can keep up. It&#039;s hard enough for a person to keep up with the changes in their field themselves.

Adaptive mindset: &quot;The ability to keep up with changes in environment relevant to one&#039;s personal well-being and one&#039;s value to society.&quot; ? Something like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Douglas, I actually only noticed now that Will in fact asked two questions. (I read his post much to quickly probably.) That would make the issues you raised within scope.</p>
<p>I think I&#8217;d sum it up by that I think that schools generally fail to instill an &#8220;adaptive&#8221; mindset into children. Schools are way to predictable. It&#8217;s perfect if you can expect the kind of jobs available, and the work making part of these jobs to be equally predictable. Problem is that nowadays, through constant changes caused by things like outsourcing, new technologies (especially for communication/collaboration), automation, mechanization and changes in consumer preferences the nature of work changes faster than ever. Faster than any system can keep up. It&#8217;s hard enough for a person to keep up with the changes in their field themselves.</p>
<p>Adaptive mindset: &#8220;The ability to keep up with changes in environment relevant to one&#8217;s personal well-being and one&#8217;s value to society.&#8221; ? Something like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Meryn Stol</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76499</link>
		<dc:creator>Meryn Stol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogg-ed.com/?p=3492#comment-76499</guid>
		<description>Douglas, I agree, but I think its outside the scope of answering the question put forward by Will. I just tried to give my idea about what problem(s) schools (purport to) solve.  There are likely about an infinite ways in which a typical school system (American or otherwise) could be improved. But I thought it was very smart of Will to go back to the basics, by asking why schools need to exist in the first place. Perhaps they don&#039;t.

As Jay Rosen, quoted by will said: “Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution.” I personally do not think that the people making part of the institution (n case of the school system: teachers and such) do it out of selfishness. I think most of the time, they honestly can&#039;t look beyond the way society has functioned for such a long time. Children preparing themselves for a top-grade career, without any formal education? &quot;Impossible!&quot; &quot;Unthinkable!&quot; Kids voluntary choosing to learn, if only through play? &quot;No way!&quot;

Now I&#039;m not the kind of person who would propose doing away with schools altogether (at least not at this moment in time), but this kind of thinking, posing these kind of questions is IMO very important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Douglas, I agree, but I think its outside the scope of answering the question put forward by Will. I just tried to give my idea about what problem(s) schools (purport to) solve.  There are likely about an infinite ways in which a typical school system (American or otherwise) could be improved. But I thought it was very smart of Will to go back to the basics, by asking why schools need to exist in the first place. Perhaps they don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>As Jay Rosen, quoted by will said: “Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution.” I personally do not think that the people making part of the institution (n case of the school system: teachers and such) do it out of selfishness. I think most of the time, they honestly can&#8217;t look beyond the way society has functioned for such a long time. Children preparing themselves for a top-grade career, without any formal education? &#8220;Impossible!&#8221; &#8220;Unthinkable!&#8221; Kids voluntary choosing to learn, if only through play? &#8220;No way!&#8221;</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m not the kind of person who would propose doing away with schools altogether (at least not at this moment in time), but this kind of thinking, posing these kind of questions is IMO very important.</p>
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		<title>By: Things I Learned This Week &#8211; #12 &#124; dougbelshaw.com/blog</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76493</link>
		<dc:creator>Things I Learned This Week &#8211; #12 &#124; dougbelshaw.com/blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogg-ed.com/?p=3492#comment-76493</guid>
		<description>[...] Will Richardson throws another great short blog post by quoting Clay Shirky, &#8220;Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution.&#8221; What is the problem to which schools are the answer? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Will Richardson throws another great short blog post by quoting Clay Shirky, &#8220;Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution.&#8221; What is the problem to which schools are the answer? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76452</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 04:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogg-ed.com/?p=3492#comment-76452</guid>
		<description>But Meryn, don&#039;t you think that schools also serve as distractions from reality in some ways? What if we were better able to expose children to a worldwide community that learned along with them, but in other countries?

I feel that many students are not given that chance to understand the international scene and what their skillsbuilding means for their future work live and college experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Meryn, don&#8217;t you think that schools also serve as distractions from reality in some ways? What if we were better able to expose children to a worldwide community that learned along with them, but in other countries?</p>
<p>I feel that many students are not given that chance to understand the international scene and what their skillsbuilding means for their future work live and college experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76451</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 04:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogg-ed.com/?p=3492#comment-76451</guid>
		<description>Given what you say about school districts, would you conclude that:

school districts are an economic solution and the time for them has passed or is passing? 

I have been thinking of this lately. I have been thinking if cloud computing and the organizational use of other types of tech devices can actually change the shape and size of school districts.

It feels to me that people&#039;s anxieties about using technology is in part enhanced by realizing that tech can diminish and erode the huge blob of bureaucracy and budget waste that school districts have become. 

Would love to have your thoughts, or reactions to that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given what you say about school districts, would you conclude that:</p>
<p>school districts are an economic solution and the time for them has passed or is passing? </p>
<p>I have been thinking of this lately. I have been thinking if cloud computing and the organizational use of other types of tech devices can actually change the shape and size of school districts.</p>
<p>It feels to me that people&#8217;s anxieties about using technology is in part enhanced by realizing that tech can diminish and erode the huge blob of bureaucracy and budget waste that school districts have become. </p>
<p>Would love to have your thoughts, or reactions to that.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76450</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 04:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogg-ed.com/?p=3492#comment-76450</guid>
		<description>That was an interesting post, but I don&#039;t really think a lot of those things are happening. 

Creativity is not diminishing. The social conversation is expanding. 

However, what might be happening is that certain segments of society are not engaging on the web or through social computing in a way that connects them with the rest of the culture. In that case, it may seem that cultural values are diminishing. It may seem. But let be be the finale of seem.

Further engagement with other communities would show you that the web is a rich and lively place of debate and cultural growth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was an interesting post, but I don&#8217;t really think a lot of those things are happening. </p>
<p>Creativity is not diminishing. The social conversation is expanding. </p>
<p>However, what might be happening is that certain segments of society are not engaging on the web or through social computing in a way that connects them with the rest of the culture. In that case, it may seem that cultural values are diminishing. It may seem. But let be be the finale of seem.</p>
<p>Further engagement with other communities would show you that the web is a rich and lively place of debate and cultural growth.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Asman</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76416</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Asman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogg-ed.com/?p=3492#comment-76416</guid>
		<description>And what impact SHOULD technology have on redfining the solutions listed above? (Just trying to seed some new thoughts..) With Technology, an individualized learning plan isn&#039;t that hard to create, manage &amp; accomplish as long as the surrounding system is prepared to support it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what impact SHOULD technology have on redfining the solutions listed above? (Just trying to seed some new thoughts..) With Technology, an individualized learning plan isn&#8217;t that hard to create, manage &amp; accomplish as long as the surrounding system is prepared to support it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dottie</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76391</link>
		<dc:creator>Dottie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 12:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogg-ed.com/?p=3492#comment-76391</guid>
		<description>Defining what well educated means is a little like defining what is obscene. I know it when I see it.  Until we as a society can decide on what the real definition is, I think the standard approach will continue. Schools often do a really good job of beating the desire to learn out of students instead of the other way around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Defining what well educated means is a little like defining what is obscene. I know it when I see it.  Until we as a society can decide on what the real definition is, I think the standard approach will continue. Schools often do a really good job of beating the desire to learn out of students instead of the other way around.</p>
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		<title>By: Kay</title>
		<link>http://weblogg-ed.com/2010/whats-the-problem-that-schools-solve/comment-page-1/#comment-76382</link>
		<dc:creator>Kay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblogg-ed.com/?p=3492#comment-76382</guid>
		<description>Hmmm....so if hospitals need us to be  sick, then schools need us to be stupid.

Or hospitals need us to realize we are sick, then schools need us to realize we are studpid.

Either way, a depressing way to start the day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230;.so if hospitals need us to be  sick, then schools need us to be stupid.</p>
<p>Or hospitals need us to realize we are sick, then schools need us to realize we are studpid.</p>
<p>Either way, a depressing way to start the day.</p>
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