Comments on: The Battle is (or Will Be) Lost http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/ Learning with the Read/Write Web Tue, 19 Jul 2011 20:36:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: content to be different » Blog Archive » We http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-23550 content to be different » Blog Archive » We Sun, 03 Jun 2007 11:03:42 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-23550 [...] … cannot win. Thank goodness. Join the conversation: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...] [...] … cannot win. Thank goodness. Join the conversation: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]

]]> By: Jeff http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-23469 Jeff Sun, 03 Jun 2007 03:33:01 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-23469 Can anyone define a “progressive direction??” We are focusing too much on the tools and not the artisans...To honestly think that technology is the end all is, well ignorant. The focus must be on the development of instructional practices that enhance the emotional and cognitive development of the modern student to meet societal "demands" and I agree technology helps, but it is by no means the solution. We need to rethink what WE do in the classroom, not what we use.... our methods need to change in order to adapt to new technological advances.. not vice versa.. Hammers are only hammers until they are put into the hands of a master carpenter... should we be focusing only on the hammers?? Can anyone define a “progressive direction??”

We are focusing too much on the tools and not the artisans…To honestly think that technology is the end all is, well ignorant. The focus must be on the development of instructional practices that enhance the emotional and cognitive development of the modern student to meet societal “demands” and I agree technology helps, but it is by no means the solution. We need to rethink what WE do in the classroom, not what we use…. our methods need to change in order to adapt to new technological advances.. not vice versa..

Hammers are only hammers until they are put into the hands of a master carpenter…

should we be focusing only on the hammers??

]]> By: Weblogg-ed » Three to Think About http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-22999 Weblogg-ed » Three to Think About Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:56:28 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-22999 [...] 3. Finally, Ben Wilkoff left a comment here last night and pointed to a really interesting wiki that lays out a plan for moving his school in a more progressive direction. Make sure you check out the proposal and the list of free software that he wants to use in place of the proprietary stuff. Listen to this podcast [...] [...] 3. Finally, Ben Wilkoff left a comment here last night and pointed to a really interesting wiki that lays out a plan for moving his school in a more progressive direction. Make sure you check out the proposal and the list of free software that he wants to use in place of the proprietary stuff. Listen to this podcast [...]

]]> By: Ben Wilkoff http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-22987 Ben Wilkoff Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:27:57 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-22987 Thanks so much for linking to my post. I think that this is such an important issue for us to start tackling as a edublogosphere. I just had a meeting with some of the heavy hitting tech "guys" in our district. I was presenting them with my ideas for a School 2.0 within a School, and while some of them got fired up about it, at least one took the view that having the minimum technology base in a classroom is the direction we should be heading in. He was basically saying that the students will gain these skills at home, and until we fully allocate funding for the integration of technology into the classroom with the professional development to match, that is just where all of the learning is going to stay. I have a hard time agreeing with that concept, even if funds are scarce. We cannot consciously make ourselves irrelevant as teachers and mentors. But, this is exactly what we will be doing if we continue to ban what is valuable and underfund what is essential. Oh, if anyone wants to check out the School 2.0 within a School proposal, head over to http://academyofdiscovery.wikispaces.com. Thanks again for the blog love. Thanks so much for linking to my post. I think that this is such an important issue for us to start tackling as a edublogosphere. I just had a meeting with some of the heavy hitting tech “guys” in our district. I was presenting them with my ideas for a School 2.0 within a School, and while some of them got fired up about it, at least one took the view that having the minimum technology base in a classroom is the direction we should be heading in. He was basically saying that the students will gain these skills at home, and until we fully allocate funding for the integration of technology into the classroom with the professional development to match, that is just where all of the learning is going to stay.

I have a hard time agreeing with that concept, even if funds are scarce. We cannot consciously make ourselves irrelevant as teachers and mentors. But, this is exactly what we will be doing if we continue to ban what is valuable and underfund what is essential.

Oh, if anyone wants to check out the School 2.0 within a School proposal, head over to http://academyofdiscovery.wikispaces.com. Thanks again for the blog love.

]]> By: Lisa Nielsen http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-22904 Lisa Nielsen Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:55:07 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-22904 Technology is here to stay. There's no turning back and banning is a useless option. I think we always have to have acceptable, appropriate, and safe use at the forefront of our minds. If that's what guides us, I think everything else will fall into place. In all the aforementioned scenarios, when you ask what is acceptable, appropriate, and safe, the proper course of action seems clear. I really like what Dean Shareski said. The technology is just a symbol for what we were doing anyway when we weren't exhibiting manners or paying attention. Sometimes it's the fault of the person not listened to and other times the fault of the listener. When I am presenting I know basic techniques like place your laptops at 45 degrees, close and focus, etc. I also think it's great that I have to be engaging enough to keep my audience's attention. If people are multitasking or sleeping in the 21st Century audience then 21st Century presenters must learn new classroom management skills. Technology is here to stay. There’s no turning back and banning is a useless option. I think we always have to have acceptable, appropriate, and safe use at the forefront of our minds. If that’s what guides us, I think everything else will fall into place. In all the aforementioned scenarios, when you ask what is acceptable, appropriate, and safe, the proper course of action seems clear.

I really like what Dean Shareski said. The technology is just a symbol for what we were doing anyway when we weren’t exhibiting manners or paying attention. Sometimes it’s the fault of the person not listened to and other times the fault of the listener.

When I am presenting I know basic techniques like place your laptops at 45 degrees, close and focus, etc. I also think it’s great that I have to be engaging enough to keep my audience’s attention.

If people are multitasking or sleeping in the 21st Century audience then 21st Century presenters must learn new classroom management skills.

]]> By: Jeff http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-22860 Jeff Thu, 31 May 2007 21:39:03 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-22860 John Dewey believed that human beings are natural organisms who, in relation with their environment, have evolved and developed intelligence. Intelligence is not innately given; it is developed out of habit of inquiry, reflection, and problem solving or adapting to an environment; it is the result of attempting to overcome problematic, threatening, and unstable characteristics of experience. Human beings, in the face of precarious situations, work out conceptual frameworks and instruments or tools in order to make these situations more stable and reliable. Intelligence is the human instrument for adapting to, altering, and refining one's transaction with the environment. Intelligence is for life and the enhancement of life; it is directed to improving the quality of experience. John Dewey wrote this at the turn of the 20th century. I have said it on this blog before, as advocators of technology and educators who want to challenge the intellect of the 21st century learner we need to address a pedagogical paradigm shift in the classroom first and foremost. These tools are here to stay and kids will use them appropriately or inappropriately no matter the amount of regulation thrust upon them, that is the essence of intellectual development and what Dewey was trying to convey to educators ninety years ago. Students will find methods to fulfill their intellectual curiosity, banning or prohibiting the web 2.0 tools only steers them done the wrong path and sends a wrong message. "Build it and they will come".. well its been built and they are coming, putting a fence around it will not stop them now they have experienced it. The question we must ask ourselves is do we want them to play in the streets with no supervision or on the grass fields with umpires? The problem before us is not access but rather the training and development of the umpires. When educators and policy makers begin value process rather than product and knowledge rather than numbers then and only then we can begin to facilitate the learning experiences that encourage the development of life long learners rather than producing mere cogs that run the industrial machine. John Dewey believed that human beings are natural organisms who, in relation with their environment, have evolved and developed intelligence. Intelligence is not innately given; it is developed out of habit of inquiry, reflection, and problem solving or adapting to an environment; it is the result of attempting to overcome problematic, threatening, and unstable characteristics of experience. Human beings, in the face of precarious situations, work out conceptual frameworks and instruments or tools in order to make these situations more stable and reliable. Intelligence is the human instrument for adapting to, altering, and refining one’s transaction with the environment. Intelligence is for life and the enhancement of life; it is directed to improving the quality of experience. John Dewey wrote this at the turn of the 20th century. I have said it on this blog before, as advocators of technology and educators who want to challenge the intellect of the 21st century learner we need to address a pedagogical paradigm shift in the classroom first and foremost. These tools are here to stay and kids will use them appropriately or inappropriately no matter the amount of regulation thrust upon them, that is the essence of intellectual development and what Dewey was trying to convey to educators ninety years ago. Students will find methods to fulfill their intellectual curiosity, banning or prohibiting the web 2.0 tools only steers them done the wrong path and sends a wrong message. “Build it and they will come”.. well its been built and they are coming, putting a fence around it will not stop them now they have experienced it. The question we must ask ourselves is do we want them to play in the streets with no supervision or on the grass fields with umpires? The problem before us is not access but rather the training and development of the umpires. When educators and policy makers begin value process rather than product and knowledge rather than numbers then and only then we can begin to facilitate the learning experiences that encourage the development of life long learners rather than producing mere cogs that run the industrial machine.

]]> By: Weblogg-ed » Summer Reading: “How” by Dov Seidman http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-22789 Weblogg-ed » Summer Reading: “How” by Dov Seidman Thu, 31 May 2007 15:07:34 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-22789 [...] What’s been really interesting to me of late is how as a culture and as a society we are reacting to the changes that these technologies are bringing to our lives. I think it was spurred pretty much by the comments that Pete Reilly left here last week and the great conversation that ensued. And it’s also been coming from my own efforts to get some balance back into my life. As Jeff said, we really need to think about how to teach balance as well as technology. [...] [...] What’s been really interesting to me of late is how as a culture and as a society we are reacting to the changes that these technologies are bringing to our lives. I think it was spurred pretty much by the comments that Pete Reilly left here last week and the great conversation that ensued. And it’s also been coming from my own efforts to get some balance back into my life. As Jeff said, we really need to think about how to teach balance as well as technology. [...]

]]> By: Betty http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-22428 Betty Mon, 28 May 2007 14:32:16 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-22428 If students are supervised and taught how to use technology responsibly, they will be more successful in the future. The problem is that a lot of parents just trust their kids to do the right thing and aren't actively involved in their kids' choices. I admit this is getting harder and harder to do. I do think that there are times when people need to interact with each other without technology. Real conversation can actually be enjoyable. If students are supervised and taught how to use technology responsibly, they will be more successful in the future. The problem is that a lot of parents just trust their kids to do the right thing and aren’t actively involved in their kids’ choices. I admit this is getting harder and harder to do. I do think that there are times when people need to interact with each other without technology. Real conversation can actually be enjoyable.

]]> By: Dean Shareski http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-22292 Dean Shareski Fri, 25 May 2007 21:37:51 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-22292 Drew, The blackberry example continues to describe how we view technology in isolated and separate from the real issue. The issue is manners and appropriate behaviour not blackberry's cellphones and laptops. Kids have been using imaginary blackberry's for years in the form of daydreaming, scribbling and unrelated discussion. The blackberry/ipod/cellphone/whatever is just form in many cases. The other issue already touched on is that using these devices in new ways means the "meeting" or "classroom" must adjust. I use my laptop in many meetings and yes, I am doing things unrelated to the meeting at hand but am still feeling connected and productive. We need to adjust to this. When I conduct workshops I'm up front with folks and tell them that if what I'm doing is not engaging or interesting, feel free to tune out. They will anyways so why pretend otherwise. The fact they may have a device that allows them to be productive is a bonus. Do you see how much this means school needs to be way different? Also in regards to social networking, if by "aspects" you mean behaviors I agree. If you mean the ability to share content and connect with people, I disagree. Drew,

The blackberry example continues to describe how we view technology in isolated and separate from the real issue. The issue is manners and appropriate behaviour not blackberry’s cellphones and laptops. Kids have been using imaginary blackberry’s for years in the form of daydreaming, scribbling and unrelated discussion. The blackberry/ipod/cellphone/whatever is just form in many cases.

The other issue already touched on is that using these devices in new ways means the “meeting” or “classroom” must adjust. I use my laptop in many meetings and yes, I am doing things unrelated to the meeting at hand but am still feeling connected and productive. We need to adjust to this. When I conduct workshops I’m up front with folks and tell them that if what I’m doing is not engaging or interesting, feel free to tune out. They will anyways so why pretend otherwise. The fact they may have a device that allows them to be productive is a bonus.

Do you see how much this means school needs to be way different?

Also in regards to social networking, if by “aspects” you mean behaviors I agree. If you mean the ability to share content and connect with people, I disagree.

]]> By: PESD Technology » Blog Archive » The Battle is Lost? http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-22285 PESD Technology » Blog Archive » The Battle is Lost? Fri, 25 May 2007 19:45:36 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-22285 [...] You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your ownsite. [...] [...] You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your ownsite. [...]

]]> By: gls http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-22283 gls Fri, 25 May 2007 19:26:38 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-22283 I think it's too early in the wired revolution for us to be giving up. I think it’s too early in the wired revolution for us to be giving up.

]]> By: Drew Buddie http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-22266 Drew Buddie Fri, 25 May 2007 14:35:02 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-22266 Grrr technology. My computer is not showing the letters I am typing :-( What a time to pick to make my first post to your Blog. Grrr technology. My computer is not showing the letters I am typing :-( What a time to pick to make my first post to your Blog.

]]> By: Drew Buddie http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-22265 Drew Buddie Fri, 25 May 2007 14:33:19 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-22265 SORRY about the typos in the above comment which I cannot seem to edit it. I'm an avid reader of your Blog and REALLY respect every point you make. Usually. But for the first time, like a commenr above, I find myself questionning why the Blackberry example can be described as lost. Surely had the CEO faced up to the issue and said - "ALL OF YOU, PUT THOSE BLACKBERRYS IN THIS BOX.NOW." And left them there throughout the whole meeting. Then he would not have 'lost'. He'd have regained ground. I also do not agree that this is generally a fight that we cannot win. I just don't like that attitude to ANY event in life. I firmly think that some aspcts of social software are dangersous and have no place in schools, and to just let them be used because we feel impotent is a defeatist attitude that I cannot agree with. SORRY about the typos in the above comment which I cannot seem to edit it.

I’m an avid reader of your Blog and REALLY respect every point you make. Usually. But for the first time, like a commenr above, I find myself questionning why the Blackberry example can be described as lost. Surely had the CEO faced up to the issue and said – “ALL OF YOU, PUT THOSE BLACKBERRYS IN THIS BOX.NOW.” And left them there throughout the whole meeting. Then he would not have ‘lost’. He’d have regained ground.

I also do not agree that this is generally a fight that we cannot win. I just don’t like that attitude to ANY event in life.

I firmly think that some aspcts of social software are dangersous and have no place in schools, and to just let them be used because we feel impotent is a defeatist attitude that I cannot agree with.

]]> By: Drew Buddie http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-22264 Drew Buddie Fri, 25 May 2007 14:31:06 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-22264 I'm an avid reader of your Blog and REALLY respect every point you make. Usually. But for the first time, like a commenr above, I find myself questionning why the Blackberry example can be described as lost. Surely had the CEO faced up to the issue and said - "LL OF YOU, POUT THOSE BLACKBERRYS IN THIS BOX.NOW." And left them there throughout the whole meeting. Then he would not have 'lost'. H'd have regained ground. I also do not agree that this is generally fight that we cannot win. I just don't like that attitude to ANY event n life. I firmly think that some aspcts of social software are dangersous and have no place in schools , and to jut let them be used because we feel impotent is a defeatist attitude that I cannot agree with. I’m an avid reader of your Blog and REALLY respect every point you make. Usually. But for the first time, like a commenr above, I find myself questionning why the Blackberry example can be described as lost. Surely had the CEO faced up to the issue and said – “LL OF YOU, POUT THOSE BLACKBERRYS IN THIS BOX.NOW.” And left them there throughout the whole meeting. Then he would not have ‘lost’. H’d have regained ground.

I also do not agree that this is generally fight that we cannot win. I just don’t like that attitude to ANY event n life.

I firmly think that some aspcts of social software are dangersous and have no place in schools , and to jut let them be used because we feel impotent is a defeatist attitude that I cannot agree with.

]]> By: Angela http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/comment-page-1/#comment-22263 Angela Fri, 25 May 2007 14:19:09 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2007/the-battle-is-or-will-be-lost/#comment-22263 The technology available today presents unprecedented means by which to foster connection and connectedness. We should be channeling connection, not putting up roadblocks. The technology available today presents unprecedented means by which to foster connection and connectedness. We should be channeling connection, not putting up roadblocks.

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