Comments on: Dispatches From the Front Lines http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/ Learning with the Read/Write Web Tue, 19 Jul 2011 20:36:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: The “Facts” about Internet Sexual Abuse and Schools « Ed Tech Journeys http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-9603 The “Facts” about Internet Sexual Abuse and Schools « Ed Tech Journeys Wed, 27 Dec 2006 17:24:03 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-9603 [...] Do any of these scenarios sound familiar? A teacher is turned down when he wants to have students do podcasts as part of his curriculum. The Director of Technology claims it’s because the teacher can’t guarantee the safety of the students. A very technology saavy and creative art teacher wants to provide an innovative project where kids connect to other kids and artists outside her classroom through blogs, e-mail, and IM. She is turned down without an explanation. It’s particularly frustrating because over the years she has advanced several ideas for projects that employ technology and each of them has been turned down. Staff members and students are complaining that the filtering systems in their school is too restrictive and needs to be adjusted. A few weeks ago, my school began to block Wikipedia. When I asked why, I was told that a student searched how to make pipe bombs. When I asked what they did to him, I was told nothing because they don’t know who did it. [I am back in my old school district as of Sept. and was shocked to find out that we don’t have a student sign-on that allows us to track the student traffic.] When I mentioned that the majority of students use it properly I was told by the school librarian that the information in Wikipedia was not accurate. I shared the article you pointed out during the workshop and she said it meant nothing because she actually found an author misspelled on the site. Today I was told by a superior that she read an article about how bad Wikipedia is. HELP ME FIGHT THEM. I am really getting frustrated. Today a teacher proposed a wonderful class that would allow movie making a student website building. Again my superior said, no because she does not want their content tied to our school site. “Help me fight them!” From Will Richardson’s post “dispatches from the front lines” [...] [...] Do any of these scenarios sound familiar? A teacher is turned down when he wants to have students do podcasts as part of his curriculum. The Director of Technology claims it’s because the teacher can’t guarantee the safety of the students. A very technology saavy and creative art teacher wants to provide an innovative project where kids connect to other kids and artists outside her classroom through blogs, e-mail, and IM. She is turned down without an explanation. It’s particularly frustrating because over the years she has advanced several ideas for projects that employ technology and each of them has been turned down. Staff members and students are complaining that the filtering systems in their school is too restrictive and needs to be adjusted. A few weeks ago, my school began to block Wikipedia. When I asked why, I was told that a student searched how to make pipe bombs. When I asked what they did to him, I was told nothing because they don’t know who did it. [I am back in my old school district as of Sept. and was shocked to find out that we don’t have a student sign-on that allows us to track the student traffic.] When I mentioned that the majority of students use it properly I was told by the school librarian that the information in Wikipedia was not accurate. I shared the article you pointed out during the workshop and she said it meant nothing because she actually found an author misspelled on the site. Today I was told by a superior that she read an article about how bad Wikipedia is. HELP ME FIGHT THEM. I am really getting frustrated. Today a teacher proposed a wonderful class that would allow movie making a student website building. Again my superior said, no because she does not want their content tied to our school site. “Help me fight them!” From Will Richardson’s post “dispatches from the front lines” [...]

]]> By: James O'Hagan http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8484 James O'Hagan Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:51:07 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-8484 You should see the reaction I got when I put the iChat server online. Lead balloons went up all over the place. Principal said it was a time waster. No, email is a time waster! iChat is quick and painless. She is worried that people will misuse it... and they cannot misuse email, or the Internet, or the phones in their rooms? grrrrr. You should see the reaction I got when I put the iChat server online. Lead balloons went up all over the place. Principal said it was a time waster. No, email is a time waster! iChat is quick and painless. She is worried that people will misuse it…

and they cannot misuse email, or the Internet, or the phones in their rooms?

grrrrr.

]]> By: John Pearce http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8363 John Pearce Mon, 18 Dec 2006 11:59:54 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-8363 The New Yorker article which is an excellent article can be found athttp://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060731fa_fact and should be compulsory reading for any teacher or teacher librarian who is dealing with research, (and that's just about all of us :). So true about students moving on and following trendy sources though.. makes you wonder how far apart some teachers and students will be in a few years time? The New Yorker article which is an excellent article can be found athttp://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060731fa_fact and should be compulsory reading for any teacher or teacher librarian who is dealing with research, (and that’s just about all of us :) .

So true about students moving on and following trendy sources though.. makes you wonder how far apart some teachers and students will be in a few years time?

]]> By: Carolyn Foote http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8349 Carolyn Foote Mon, 18 Dec 2006 03:18:32 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-8349 I'm a librarian as well. I'd recommend the excellent article that appeared in the New Yorker (sometime between June and September--I'd look it up but I have Christmas tree sap all over me and am just here for a moment!) on wikipedia. I also agree with the comment above--students will use tools they find useful and we just make ourselves irrelevant if we don't "get it." We should be teaching them how to evaluate the tools they use and how to think critically. That skill they can take forward and apply to anything they deal with in the future. The breadth and currency of wikipedia is one of its strengths and partly why so many students use it, a point which the New Yorker article drives home. Several of our teachers shared the article with their class as a way of deepening the discussion about this. I already see our students moving on--now that Wikipedia is getting more mainstream use, our students are moving onto other things. Funny how that works... I’m a librarian as well. I’d recommend the excellent article that appeared in the New Yorker (sometime between June and September–I’d look it up but I have Christmas tree sap all over me and am just here for a moment!) on wikipedia.

I also agree with the comment above–students will use tools they find useful and we just make ourselves irrelevant if we don’t “get it.”

We should be teaching them how to evaluate the tools they use and how to think critically. That skill they can take forward and apply to anything they deal with in the future.

The breadth and currency of wikipedia is one of its strengths and partly why so many students use it, a point which the New Yorker article drives home. Several of our teachers shared the article with their class as a way of deepening the discussion about this.

I already see our students moving on–now that Wikipedia is getting more mainstream use, our students are moving onto other things. Funny how that works…

]]> By: Teachers http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8343 Teachers Sun, 17 Dec 2006 21:06:35 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-8343 <strong>Connective Writing...</strong> Connective writing is a brilliant concept that links your ideas and comments to another's person's...... Connective Writing…

Connective writing is a brilliant concept that links your ideas and comments to another's person's……

]]> By: Jim Gates http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8338 Jim Gates Sun, 17 Dec 2006 13:33:48 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-8338 The librarians in this area have, of course, chimed in on this topic and one of them finally said, "Get over it. They're going to use it. The only thing you can do is help to teach them the difference between primary sources, secondary sources, and the like." Blocking a site because you don't like it is different than blocking an inappropriate site, and I would hope that schools don't go down that path. Finally, I would give those librarians this link: http://www.ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=j_wales That is Jimmy Wales himself telling about the philosophy and inner workings of wikipedia. Perhaps they won't be so quick to block it if they knew more about it. The librarians in this area have, of course, chimed in on this topic and one of them finally said, “Get over it. They’re going to use it. The only thing you can do is help to teach them the difference between primary sources, secondary sources, and the like.”

Blocking a site because you don’t like it is different than blocking an inappropriate site, and I would hope that schools don’t go down that path.

Finally, I would give those librarians this link: http://www.ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=j_wales

That is Jimmy Wales himself telling about the philosophy and inner workings of wikipedia. Perhaps they won’t be so quick to block it if they knew more about it.

]]> By: Angie http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8319 Angie Sat, 16 Dec 2006 23:50:39 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-8319 I appreciate the "don't fight them/work with them" type comments as I am a relatively new K-5 librarian. 8] My frustration--a system that doesn't provide for spending the time to work with the kids on effective research skills. (Does this change at the secondary level?) I totally agree that we ALL, students and faculty alike, have to regularly evaluate our information sources. This is something any literate individual needs to be able to do. Hence, I continue to talk about this to everyone who will listen whenever they'll listen. But so far these skills are not SPECIFICALLY printed in our state-mandated on curriculum. Those of us who read blogs like this know, of course, that it is all integrated; but, until it is on "the test" not everyone will pay attention. They are all just trying to keep their heads above water. And the large school district I work for? The people who decide what gets "blocked" are not even educators. They work in a central office. Librarians have no say in the matter. Classroom teachers and administrators have no say in the matter. ALL blogs are blocked. Wikispaces is blocked. Wikipedia is not blocked. Yet. Will it be the first place I direct kids? Until I can get fifth graders for more than two fifty minute periods once or twice a year ... honestly, probably not. I'll stick with the EB Online that, while on average may have only one less mistake per article that Wikipedia, is still the more immediately accurate of the two. I appreciate the “don’t fight them/work with them” type comments as I am a relatively new K-5 librarian. 8]
My frustration–a system that doesn’t provide for spending the time to work with the kids on effective research skills. (Does this change at the secondary level?) I totally agree that we ALL, students and faculty alike, have to regularly evaluate our information sources. This is something any literate individual needs to be able to do. Hence, I continue to talk about this to everyone who will listen whenever they’ll listen. But so far these skills are not SPECIFICALLY printed in our state-mandated on curriculum. Those of us who read blogs like this know, of course, that it is all integrated; but, until it is on “the test” not everyone will pay attention. They are all just trying to keep their heads above water. And the large school district I work for? The people who decide what gets “blocked” are not even educators. They work in a central office. Librarians have no say in the matter. Classroom teachers and administrators have no say in the matter. ALL blogs are blocked. Wikispaces is blocked. Wikipedia is not blocked. Yet. Will it be the first place I direct kids? Until I can get fifth graders for more than two fifty minute periods once or twice a year … honestly, probably not. I’ll stick with the EB Online that, while on average may have only one less mistake per article that Wikipedia, is still the more immediately accurate of the two.

]]> By: Rob De Lorenzo http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8313 Rob De Lorenzo Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:38:49 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-8313 A solution could be to present to your librarian and principal some professional literature on the matter. A copy of the compilation titled "Coming of Age" should do. Page 83-89 is the most relevant. Particularly relevant is the stat that Wikipedia has approximately 4 mistakes per article while the Encyclopedia Britanica has three. The compilation can be found on Ewan McIntosh's blog. It can also be found here: http://fullmeasure.co.uk/Coming_of_age_v1-2.pdf Good Luck! A solution could be to present to your librarian and principal some professional literature on the matter. A copy of the compilation titled “Coming of Age” should do. Page 83-89 is the most relevant. Particularly relevant is the stat that Wikipedia has approximately 4 mistakes per article while the Encyclopedia Britanica has three. The compilation can be found on Ewan McIntosh’s blog. It can also be found here:

http://fullmeasure.co.uk/Coming_of_age_v1-2.pdf

Good Luck!

]]> By: Bob F http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8311 Bob F Sat, 16 Dec 2006 17:35:02 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-8311 Great comments - I agree that we don't "Fight Them," but listen and hope they will see our point of view. This comes down to the fundamental thing missing in education - effective communication. It is our professional and moral obligation as educators to learn about these technologies and make them work - that is if we truly want our students to be able to compete in a global economy. As educators, we need to educate - not only our students, but our colleagues and district leaders as well. There is too much great technology out there, including Wikipedia, that should not be blocked! Great comments – I agree that we don’t “Fight Them,” but listen and hope they will see our point of view. This comes down to the fundamental thing missing in education – effective communication. It is our professional and moral obligation as educators to learn about these technologies and make them work – that is if we truly want our students to be able to compete in a global economy. As educators, we need to educate – not only our students, but our colleagues and district leaders as well. There is too much great technology out there, including Wikipedia, that should not be blocked!

]]> By: Doug Johnson http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8308 Doug Johnson Sat, 16 Dec 2006 14:29:57 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-8308 This is policy-making issue. The teacher needs to work to see that a committee is formed that would help establish policies, goals, budgets, etc. (See http://www.doug-johnson.com/dougwri/policy.html). Any time a policy is made unilaterally, whether by a librarian, a tech, an administrator, it will cause resentment. I've always found that these sorts of decisions need to be made collaboratively. All the best and good luck! Doug This is policy-making issue. The teacher needs to work to see that a committee is formed that would help establish policies, goals, budgets, etc. (See http://www.doug-johnson.com/dougwri/policy.html).

Any time a policy is made unilaterally, whether by a librarian, a tech, an administrator, it will cause resentment. I’ve always found that these sorts of decisions need to be made collaboratively.

All the best and good luck!

Doug

]]> By: MrChristie » Teaching for Understanding http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8298 MrChristie » Teaching for Understanding Sat, 16 Dec 2006 06:00:28 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-8298 [...] Another thing that I have been working on is having students view the internet as more than a cool place to chat and hang out, play games and watch videos. It is a place of interesting thoughts, ideas and perspectives that has the potential to bring us in touch with many different things that can help us to build whatever it is we are building. (Pipe bombs excluded) We have an opportunity now, with many of our students still keen about the internet and learning, to really get them involved in this process and have them share and work together with all kinds of people while we provide the parameters by which they will need to demonstrate proficiencies, knowledge being one of them. [...] [...] Another thing that I have been working on is having students view the internet as more than a cool place to chat and hang out, play games and watch videos. It is a place of interesting thoughts, ideas and perspectives that has the potential to bring us in touch with many different things that can help us to build whatever it is we are building. (Pipe bombs excluded) We have an opportunity now, with many of our students still keen about the internet and learning, to really get them involved in this process and have them share and work together with all kinds of people while we provide the parameters by which they will need to demonstrate proficiencies, knowledge being one of them. [...]

]]> By: Natalie http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8293 Natalie Sat, 16 Dec 2006 04:44:53 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-8293 Shouldn't we focus on the reasons why a student would want to make a pipe bomb? Isn't that somehow more relevant than discovering where the inforation came from? I love wikepedia more than I ever thought possible. And as for mispelling, I've read novels which have had atrocious grammar errors in them, (which well-respected publishers have missed) but I don't see educators saying that they're useless! The first suggestion to have the librarian correct misinforation is great. That is what wikipedia is all about. Shouldn’t we focus on the reasons why a student would want to make a pipe bomb? Isn’t that somehow more relevant than discovering where the inforation came from?

I love wikepedia more than I ever thought possible. And as for mispelling, I’ve read novels which have had atrocious grammar errors in them, (which well-respected publishers have missed) but I don’t see educators saying that they’re useless!

The first suggestion to have the librarian correct misinforation is great. That is what wikipedia is all about.

]]> By: Rob Darrow http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8292 Rob Darrow Sat, 16 Dec 2006 03:45:53 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-8292 Give the librarian a copy of The Long Tail and have her read the chapter about Wikipedia (or see Anderson's blog at http://www.thelongtail.com/). As a librarian myself, the power of Wikipedia are the entries that you can't find anywhere else. It is a valid source of information that is not available in other sources. Wikipedia is a good starting point for the kind of research that takes place in K-12 schools. Give the librarian a copy of The Long Tail and have her read the chapter about Wikipedia (or see Anderson’s blog at http://www.thelongtail.com/). As a librarian myself, the power of Wikipedia are the entries that you can’t find anywhere else. It is a valid source of information that is not available in other sources. Wikipedia is a good starting point for the kind of research that takes place in K-12 schools.

]]> By: Brian Crosby http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8286 Brian Crosby Fri, 15 Dec 2006 20:28:51 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-8286 This should also remind us to have those examples ready. You know where the examples of great Wiki pages are. Where has someone explained their value ... um ... um... oh, how about Will's book? How about Cool Cat Teacher Blog? Someone probably even has an example of how their class did edit a Wiki page and had to do all that analyzing, questioning, editing ... This should also remind us to have those examples ready. You know where the examples of great Wiki pages are. Where has someone explained their value … um … um… oh, how about Will’s book? How about Cool Cat Teacher Blog? Someone probably even has an example of how their class did edit a Wiki page and had to do all that analyzing, questioning, editing …

]]> By: Jim Gates http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8285 Jim Gates Fri, 15 Dec 2006 20:05:44 +0000 http://weblogg-ed.com/2006/dispatches-from-the-front-lines-2/#comment-8285 I would suggest tht this person share this link: http://www.ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=j_wales It's Jimmy Wales talking about the mission of wikipedia as well as how it works. Very informative. I would also suggest, as someone had noted some time ago, that web pages are not only valuable for the content on the page, but for the links on the pages, as well, and there are usually excellent links in wikipedia articles. Finally, I'd quote another librarian in our area as she contributed to a discussion thread of all librarians. "Get over it! It's here. The kids will use it at home even if block it here. So, the best thing we can do is help them to understand the difference between primary sources and this type of source." She went on to say that this is a PERFECT topic for librarians if they can work with the teachers to get the kids into he library to TEACH them about the site. I would suggest tht this person share this link: http://www.ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=j_wales

It’s Jimmy Wales talking about the mission of wikipedia as well as how it works. Very informative.

I would also suggest, as someone had noted some time ago, that web pages are not only valuable for the content on the page, but for the links on the pages, as well, and there are usually excellent links in wikipedia articles.

Finally, I’d quote another librarian in our area as she contributed to a discussion thread of all librarians. “Get over it! It’s here. The kids will use it at home even if block it here. So, the best thing we can do is help them to understand the difference between primary sources and this type of source.” She went on to say that this is a PERFECT topic for librarians if they can work with the teachers to get the kids into he library to TEACH them about the site.

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